Creating New Pothole


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By dsliland12 - 2/4/2010 1:42:43 PM
I have been planning on creating a pothole on my property in North East, Texas and have some questions. I have researched and read all previous seminars and topics and I have a good Idea but I want to see what ya'll think. We have had good duck hunting on our lake without any work done so I think this can bring it to the next level. The potholes will be 2-3 acres on previous hay fields and will try to resemble SWAMPERs masterpiece. Its water source is a creek that will be right next to it so I can manipulate the levels with flashboaard risers. I am trying to figure how to get a photo uploaded so yall can see, but for now, it will be a triangular shape in a corner of a 17 acre hay field with trees on two sides. (I know to make the edges irregular). I sent in for a soil test from biologic and it says I have a fine pH Level for there product Guides Choice and that the nutrients levels arent bad and that i need to add some fertilizer. Now this is what I'm worried about. My county soil survey says its Elbon Soil which is fequently flooded. I know its clayey because everything around there is and it says 0-20 inches is clay, 20-53 inches is silty clay loam, 53-72 is clay. I did See one site say if its protected from flooding people grow cotton, grain sorghum and soybeans.

My main concern is after I do everything is there a possibility that there will be no growth? Can I do anything to it to make growth? Any Ideas on how to go about this?

Im also wondering about, how hard it will be to dig with a bulldozer?

By dsliland12 - 2/4/2010 2:21:35 PM

hard to tell but its that pen outline on the left. The trees on the top side is the creek

By Swamper - 2/5/2010 5:43:56 PM
land12..............i'm on it!! :)

if you have the capabilities of manipulating the creek, to allow for flooding your adjacent acreage, you may be a great candidate for a Moist Soil Management (MSM) impoundment.  basically you would berm your acreage using the creek as one side, so to speak.

MSM impoundments are the mother of all duck holes!!!   i will be starting one myself on a 6 acare parcel this spring.  while my other pothole properties are killer duck holes (thanks for the compliment by the way :)) they didn't have the required water source to that allowed water manipulation.

i could type a whole bunch of stuff, but to get started, please read the attached Army Corp MSM Impoundment Bulletin.  it is chucked full of all the info you need to know.

once you digest that info, let's talk about the lay of your land with regard to the creek.

in short, MSM impoundments involve flooding, then drawing down to expose the "mud flat", which is then planted or existing vegetation managed, then slowly reflooded again before the migration!!!!!!!!!!  it is absolutely THE BEST land management if ducks are your goal!! :D  you can throw up a couple woodie boxes in the trees and you will be making it even sweeter.

enjoy the reading and i look forward to continued discussion.......(the seasons done and this is what i do for 8 months  :D) 

http://el.erdc.usace.army.mil/elpubs/pdf/trel99-11.pdf

ps, if it turns out this is not for you, i will gladly continue the conversation relating to a basic pothole scenario.  by the way. sounds like the soil is perfect for water retention for both MSM or basic pothole.  just so you know, when you construct a pothole, either with a dozer or excavator  (i prefer an excavator, i can explain why later)  you cast back top soil, sort of randomly, into the excavated bottom.  this gives the pothole some organic seeding.  if you don't have the WRP Pothole Construction manual, i'd be happy to attach it to a post for you.

swamper

By dsliland12 - 2/6/2010 4:33:13 PM
Thanks Swamper for another helpful reply, The MSM Impoundment sounds Awesome. I definately want to be able to flood and draw down levels. I Read the bulletin and see where its going. What are the main differnces between a pothole complex and a MSMI? Is it being able to manipulate the water for flooding and drawing down?

I can't tell if you will be able to tell, but in this picture the black arrows are a hill that starts at the road shown in white. (maybe runoff can help) There is a pond in the middle. The yellow is where the hill stops and becomes flat. The red is a slough that fills up when there is alot of rain. It has been filled this last year but im not sure when it is usually. The blue is the creek and it runs north east. The left outlining next to the creek is 2 acres and the other is 1.8 roughly. The whole field is 17 and I can expand. The other side of the creek is not our land

The Creek is around 20 feet deep and 10 to 15 ft. wide, and its water level changes all the time. I dont know if its from the rains because this January is was very low and this summer it was half full? Definatley floods, county says 2 to 5 times a year. It is outlined with trees but there are areas that open for 15 yards without any.

By Swamper - 2/7/2010 3:56:43 PM
ok .........got it!

i will give it some thought.  will likely come up with some more questions.  gotta go get ready for the super bowl.  i'll be back to you in a day or two.

you have some fantastic potential!!!    this will be a slammerization duck hole for sure.  :)

and yes, MSM impoundment relies on manual manipulation of water levels to acheive desired results.  Potholes rely soley on mother nature to fill or dry up.  the big difference, of course is, MSM maximizes a properties potential.  having access to water is the key. and you have it.  given a choice, MSM is a no brainer if you're a duck hunter.  is the land in question, (within that 17 acre parcel) fairly flat?  you could impound the entire 17, grow corn or soybean or millet, then flood it for the hunting season.  or you could impound half of it and incorporate some seasonal potholes in the other half (fantastic nesting habitat)........or any combination thereof.  the key here is to harness the creek water.   since you don't own both sides, consideraton of your neighbor is a must. 

last question of the day.........do you have access to heavy equipment and/or do you have some cash to invest in this process. a lot of what i can suggest, depends on your available funds.     

take care

swamper

By dsliland12 - 2/8/2010 12:29:12 PM
Hey Swamper,

The land in question is flat as can be. It has some trenches but nothing that will affect the project. MSM is definately what i want to go with. I have talked to local heavy equipment retailers and have weekly rental prices which i can work with. For right now, this year, I want to start off creating the main objective (MSM) and next year I am definately going to either add onto the MSM size or created the seasonal potholes you have suggested until the whole 17 acres is a duck mecca. A couple of questions:  how long does a task like this take? and what kind of water control strucutre are the best to use? I have seen flashboard risers and screw gates, also I dont know if the work well but flap gates.

By Swamper - 2/8/2010 1:37:53 PM
howdy

let's move the chains ahead a little and assume for now that the water from creek to impoundment issue is resolved.  

i'm a retired contractor and always went on the idea that bigger is better when it comes to digging holes and pushing dirt.  there always exceptions, but this isn't one of them.  therefore, i would recommend using a dozer (D6 Cat) would be perfect, if you can afford it.  always remember one thing, a bigger machine, although seemingly more costly by looking at rental rates, can get the job done faster than its smaller, cheaper counterpart and therefore saving money over the life of the project. i can't see you using anything smaller than a D4 for this project.

if not yourself, find someone who is really good in the seat and you will move some dirt!!

the MSM manual recommends 5 acres as the smallest impoundment.  you will encompass the entire impoundment with a levee (berm).  think of it as a shallow bath tub.  optimum depth of the water at full flooding is 18" to 2 feet.  so you will want to have your berm height at no less than 3 feet.  this will give you one foot of "freeboard".  incorporate a spillway in your berm  that will let excess water out and maintain your 2 foot maximum level.   the dozer will strip off and stockpile the topsoil from underneath the footprint of the berm.  the soil you use to build your berm can come from either the inside of the impoundent or the outside.  we'll discuss that later and estimate the amount of soil required to build the berm. first you have to decide how much of that 17 you want to impoundment to get started.  if you took it from inside, perhaps you could take it from both ends, leaving you two deep water areas with MSM over the rest.  that might be awesome!  it would give you a diverse impoundment. i have read that ringnecks really like the deeper holes in a MSM impoundment.

i''l be doing a 5 acre impoundment, same berm height as you etc.    i'm estimating about 2 weeks of dozer work to complete the berm.  beyond that i haven't given much thought.

i'll take a break now.  the next time we talk, i'll give you a link to my recommended water level structure and a cross section on how to properly build a berm.

this is very interesting to me.  as i mentioned, while i have 2 other properties that i have developed, this is my first MSM. although the construction of it is not new stuff, the whole concept is.  so it will be fun as you and i go along with this.  my property is being funded 100% by the federal government through WRP program.  it took 2 full years to get it to this point.  the land will be forever wetland as part of the agreement. but it's a swamp!!!.........so            it's all good! 

also, you are in texas and i am up here in upstate ny where the snow is still falling as we speak.  you're going to likely get a head start on me.

later

swamper

By Swamper - 2/8/2010 2:47:22 PM
yo,  misc. links and infor

1.  inline water structure....  www.agridrain.com     

INLINE03X08PInline WCS 3'x8" PVC
$505.05

the above 3 foot high structure should work.  check out the agridrain site, lot's of good wetland goodies!

2.  Berm (low embankment) Construction Design Sheet

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NY/Engineering/drawings/wetlands/ny-eng-659a_1-2.pdf

3.  Pothole Construction Design sheet

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NY/Engineering/drawings/wetlands/ny-eng-774.pdf

the notes on these drawings pretty much say it all.

i did some quick math.  since i will be doing a 5 acre MSM......

no matter what the configuration (my property is long and narrow) we will need 2200 lineal feet of berm to impound 5 acres.  the standard berm design is bottom of berm is 5 feet wide for every 1 vertical foot.  we will be 3 feet high therefore 3 feet requires 5 x 3 wide at the bottom or......15 feet wide at the bottom.  FYI, we want a minimum of 6 feet across at the top. 

so............2200 lineal feet at required dimensions is aprox. 3000 cubic yards of excavated soil to build the berm.  i did the math and if you excavate 1/2 acre at 2 foot deep, at both ends, that gives you the 3000 cubic yard. at full flood stage you have two, one half acre "ponds" at each end leaving the remaining 4 of the 5 acres as 2 foot deep MSM. (at full flooded levels).   

during full draw down you would have the two 1/2 acre ends of the impoundment holding 2 foot of water.  that would be fine!  the manual says that draw down sometimes displaces new born ducks and they will have water and protection within the impoundment.

i may very well do the same thing.  i have the WRP engineers to deal with, but they generally are very open to the landowners ideas.

if there is anything unclear here, let me know and i will try again.  maybe i can send you a diagrahm or something if i need to.

By Swamper - 2/8/2010 3:09:56 PM
here is a first graders diagrahm :D

the impoundment doesn't have to be that irregular in shape, but i hope this gets my point across with regard to getting the soil you need to build the berm.  if you increase the size of the impoundment, then just increase the size of the excavated pothole/ponds at each end.

now it's a matter of figuring out how to get the water from the creek to the impoundment.  you could always pump it in from the creek...... 

more discusson later

By rtcbob - 2/8/2010 6:50:58 PM
Small point of correction Ed..... The correct berm has 5:1 side slopes on both sides.  That coupled with a 6' top width results in a cross-sectional area of 63 sq ft.    2200 Lf of that results in 5133 CY of material.

One other thing to keep in mind, for smaller dozers, anything much over a 500' push for the mass earth moving and the dozer gets to be very inefficient.  If you're paying for the equipment time or paying someone else to do it, your money would be better spent on a track-loader, like a 953 Cat or ideally a track loader and truck if getting anywhere near a 1000' move.

Around here rental on a 953 is less than a D6 and hourly rates are only slightly more than for a D5.  A good operator can do a fine job of finish grading the berm w/ a track loader.

By Swamper - 2/8/2010 10:18:50 PM
rt, duly noted on my math.  can no longer do math in my head.......too old :w00t:

i also agree with the track loader concept.   pushing dirt gets expensive when you start moving it long distance.  however, the problem we have around here is the availablility of track loaders for rent.  for whatever reason, our local dealers don't have them, so we end up with a larger dozer and do what we have to do.

on larger jobs, we could afford to pay the trucking to have them bring  one in from somewhere outside the area, especially when it would be on the site for a long term rental. 

By dsliland12 - 2/10/2010 2:07:31 PM
The heavy equipment rental employees said that the D6 would be fine, but i can always get something bigger or ask what will be better for the situation once I know exactly what im doing.

As for the berm development, I know the size and dimensions and how it looks but I dont know if I dig a "hole"  18 inches to 2 feet deep and put the dirt moved to the edges and that makes the berm. So essentially from the top of the 3 ft. tall berm to the bottom of the 2ft. deep "hole" is 5 ft. And the top of the berm is 3 ft. above untouched ground. (top picture)

Or The maximum Height of the berm compared to untouched ground is 1 foot? So that would make the bottom of the "hole" to the top of the berm is 3 Ft. (bottom picture)

Now that I think of it, would I even Be digging out the 18-24 inches? or is the berm keeping in the water that will be ontop of the soil that lays there now?.

I think I might have confused myself a little so please excuse me if I sound dumb and Help me through this

By Swamper - 2/10/2010 4:06:31 PM
you do NOT want to excavate the bottom of the impoundment.  your last thought is correct.   the only excavation will be what i showed in my other graphic (in green) that you will use to construct your berm.  here's another elementary drawing

your flooded impoundment will be 2 feet of water ON EXISTING ground. except in the excavated areas (one on each side of the impoundment) for building the berm.  if you dig your impoundment, you won't be able to draw it down (unless you had lots of slope on your property which i think you said was very flat.)

the next big issue is getting water into the impoundment.  i have the luxury of being able to gravity feed into my impoundment and the small creek runs right through the impoundment.  which will fill up the impoundment them flow over the spillway.

not sure what elevation changes are going on across the section of your property. i think you said you are about dead flat.  is there any way of damming the creek up stream of the impoundment so we can get a gravity feed.  or your other option, which is not uncommon, is to pump into the impoundment.  i did the math and you would need 4 million gallons over 6 acres (i included the deeper pond areas). that sounds like alot but a 6" diesel centrifugal pump will move about 2000 gallons a minute with a low head.  that equates to about 32 hours to fill your impoundment.  if you were to purchase a used pump (army surplus for example) you could set it up, maybe build a little shed over it and it would be there when you need it.

the pumping sequence would be:

1. fill the impoundment in the spring

2. draw down in mid summer to allow for natural vegetation growth or planting of millet, sorghum, etc.

3. fill back up for migration 

4. buy lots of ammo to slammerize ducks :)

5. top off again in spring

if you have a local college that has a wildlife/environmental discipline, work with them on the vegetation aspect of the program. or contact your local NRCS office and they will help you with the vegetation management also.

By dsliland12 - 2/10/2010 8:37:41 PM
ok thank you, now i definately have the concept.

I dont think it will be possible to **** the creek because its pretty big.  I have thought about the water pump but how much would that cost?

By Swamper - 2/10/2010 9:57:16 PM
based on those dimensions of the creek you gave me, i knew damming it would likely be out of the question.  i'm not sure what a used pump would cost.  i can check it out and get a ball park figure.

is that pond on the picture at a higher elevation than the field you will be impounding?  i'm just looking at all angles and possibilities.. :)

By dsliland12 - 2/11/2010 2:16:03 PM
yes I was also looking at the pond its decent size, pretty deep and always full. Its elevated a pretty good bit from the 17 acre field if you have an idea for that. its also about 1800 ft. from the selected area
By Swamper - 2/11/2010 4:13:02 PM
well.............i guess everything comes down to money, doesn't it.

does that pond "set down" in a low area. in other words,  if your standing nest to the water, and you want to walk towards your new impoundment.  do you walk up hill,  or is it such that you can stand next to the water and look down and see your impoundment.  whats the surface square footage and how deep is it.  (i'm trying gauge how much water it is holding. this could very well be your answer to obtaining water to fill the impoundment.) what would you say is the difference in elevation from the top of the pond water to the elevation of the impoundment land.

if the elevations works out,  you could dig and bury a pipe from the pond to the impoundment, with a valve at the impoundment.  open up the valve and let er rip until your full.  since you're in texas, i don't think you'll ever have to worry about the pipe freezing, so it only has to be buried enough to cover it.  heck,  you could get a ditch witch a bury 1800 feet in no time. 

By dsliland12 - 2/11/2010 9:30:54 PM
The Pond is around a little over 1 acres and is deep enough that i cant retrieve ducks if we jump it. And I would be looking down at the impoundment area. Im not sure how much it is elevated but i feel its a good hill. do you know how much it would need to be.

It does come down to money, but i'll tell you that area will be a MSM in the next two years. I just need to know how much I need to save becasue I spend all my money unless I have something like this to save up on. alot of it is usually spent on duck hunts and equipment I dont need.

If the pond idea doesnt sound that great do you think I should make the impoundment and hope the creek flooding and mother nature will help for he next year? 

By Swamper - 2/12/2010 11:35:39 AM
first let me say this............i like your attitude.  you are lucky to have land that has such great potential.  yours is killer property. your vision to go with MSM is absolutely the way to go.  especially if you are patient enough to do it right even if it doesn't happen "right now".   you could skimp and do something else with it but you want to maximize your potential!!!  good choice!

the minimum recommendation is 5 acres for MSM.  so plan on that size for now. if money allows as your going along...........make it bigger.  you can always add on later.

the key remains the water.  so...........yes, you could, at least for now, plan on and hope for creek flooding to fill the impoundment.  if you think the creek would flood up over the 3 foot berm, fine, if not,  you can put a pipe with a valve.  leave the valve open until the water level is at its highest then close the valve to trap the water in the impoundment.

ok so it may not be the total control we want, but it gets things going inside the impoundment.  i'm thinking the pond is our ticket to permanent and total control.

would you say the bottom of the pond is still higher than the impoundment grade level?  if so, you are golden and i have the answer to the question...."how do i do it?"

it would be a great help if i knew what the elevations were.  do you or a friend have access to a level and rod to shoot the grades.  with that info  (top of pond water,  estimated bottom of pond water, and top of ground at the impoundment), i could have your game plan sewn up!

i if lived anywhere near you in texas, i'd be over tomorrow to shoot the grades for you!  :)

we'll get it figured out and the end result will be awesome! so SAVE your money!!!!!!!!

By dsliland12 - 2/15/2010 6:43:56 PM
I know that bottom of the pond is elevated above the impoundment. I would say it is at least 40 feet higher but I really have no idea how to gauge it. I know its a hassle to walk up the hill. And we jump it from its north side which has a steep embankment which I feel is a good height.

I also dont know when I will be able to get out the to get the actual elevations so it might be a while to get a game plan.

As for the creek I'm not sure if it would overflow the 3 foot berm so I like the valve idea and If it does flow over i like that too.

my money is going no where else but this project. Im going to start out with the 5 acres this year and soon the 17 will be a duck mecca

By Swamper - 2/15/2010 10:24:45 PM
it's going to be a good one!    i reread the moist soil managment manual again today.  each time i read it i absorb a little more and get more comfortable with the whole concept.  i also contacted the college of forestry at Syracuse University (nearby me) to get hooked up with their natural resource dept.   i hope to get lot's of help with regard to the actual managing of the vegetation from them.  i will pass along all the knowledge i get from them!!

when you get the elevations, let me know and i can do some design ideas for you in regard to providing water from the pond.  even if you are half wrong on the 40 feet.....................you will have a gravity feed system!!!!!!!!

truth is, we only need a few feet to make it work!

5 acres..........here we come!

By dsliland12 - 4/19/2010 6:54:24 PM
Hey, Ive been meaning to give an update. I'm going to start to dig at the beginning of August because I'm finishing school and have to take a Maymester and both summer terms so I'm not going to be back in Texas for a good stint until then. Plus I feel like I should wait till its 110 degrees so I can break a sweat and get a tan. I re-read the MSM booklet and think about it all the time. I  have been making alot of plans that I feel good about. Now I just have to execute. This year is going to just be the initial building of the structure. Next year I can give full attention to planting and water control.  I'm still thinking about the water source. The pond is still in my head but I'm leaning toward the pump. I have researched and looked into pumps and think it will be good for the long run, especially if I expand. I'm excited and eager to get out there and start working on it. I saw the beginnings to you MSM and it looks like it is going to be awesome. I'm jealous about how how you get your water, but I'll get mine too. Keep updating on your place. When I get to mine I will have photos and updates for sure.
By Swamper - 4/20/2010 8:43:46 PM
10-4, i'll keep you posted.  in fact i'm meeting with the NRCS guy and his design guy out there tomorrow afternoon. it sort of a pre-construction meeting to go over the drawings, ask questions, do some preliminary layout etc. 

glad you're still fired up on MSM!!!  good luck with school and i look forward to seeing and hearing more of your venture!

swamper

By DukBum - 4/27/2010 11:34:21 AM
Swamper,I might be able to put you in touch with someone local that might be able to help with info and ideals on your project,just let me know
By Swamper - 5/8/2010 7:15:24 PM
bum,

help in what capacity

swamper

By dsliland12 - 7/20/2010 4:40:47 PM
Hey swamper, it has been a while but I finally made it back to Texas to look at the property again. I had an idea about how to excavate and build the berm. The creek that will provide the water is right next to where we are making the MSM. The creek is deep and will be where the water we drain from the MSM will go. The water is always about ten feet below ground level. I was thinking it would be easier to distribute the soil if I just dug out roughly 1/2 to 1 foot deep everywhere instead of two 1/2 acre areas 2 feet deep at each end. I could still put the riser drain in the bottom and it would flow out into the creek still because it would always be above the creek water level (it would have 9 feet to drop into creek water). Do you think this would be ok?
By Swamper - 7/20/2010 8:37:55 PM
howdy,  been wondering what you've been up to.  i started my msm project last week.  still have several weeks to go, but it's coming along great. a lot of the techniques we're using would be applicable to your situation.

 my site looks exactly like like the cartoon i drew for you.

i dug out the deep end because i needed more clay across the back berm.  the side berms don't require as much clay so we will, like the deep end, strip and stock the topsoil, then excavate out the clay we need to build the berm. then re spread the topsoil over the excavated area.  of course these areas will be a little lower because of the removed clay.  be careful that when you excavate for your clay that you don't break through the clay layer and expose a silt, sand or gravel layer that will act like a drain in your impoundment. 

i don't think it's necessary to dig out the entire impoundment.  again, i would just strip the topsoil off to the side (within the berm) push your clay up and shape the berm witha dozer and then respread the topsoil over the escavated area and the new berm.

but...........you could do it your way.  i guess you'd just simply be digging the impoundment into the ground rather than having the existing ground as your impoundment bottom..   correct?  just be sure to strip the topsoil first because you don't want to have an exposed clay bottom.  it won't grow anything and the water may not clear up. 

excavate out to the depths you want and put a layer of topsoil back over the entire excavated area.  since you have 9 feet of elevation to the creek for draining, that would work ok i guess.

when do you plan on starting?   and what did you decide on flooding the impoundment?

if you get going soon, you can maybe get some millet in for the migration than begin next year with your MSM program. !!!

Keep me informed!! :)

swamper

 

ps, check out the progress pixs of my new msm project on the "New WRP" thread here in the habitat forum.  we have a few weeks of work left.  it's going great and it is very exciting to daydream what will be happening come duck opener :w00t:  :)

By Swamper - 7/22/2010 3:03:40 PM
ds,

here's a video of the work progress as of today. notice how we are stripping off the topsoil, pushing the clay up to build the berm, then respreading the topsoil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCwYpDEG05E

By Swamper - 1/3/2011 3:02:44 PM
moving it up
By dsliland12 - 2/9/2011 6:25:09 PM
Hey Swamper, Its been a while. My cousin and I are planning on starting at the beginning of May, so it will probably be mid May to Early June.

 I was back in Texas for around a month and was hunting on my land most of the time so I was able to check out the land more. The creek I will be pumping from was about 15 feet down to the water. It was only a foot deep and it is wide. There is a spot where the creek gets narrower to about 15 feet which I figure I can dam up a little bit. The water fluctuates alot. I have seen it halfway filled and it over flows during large rains. 

My question is how to determine a pumps suction lift. The creek will be right next to the MSM so the water only needs to be lifted out. Do you have any ideas?

By Swamper - 2/10/2011 12:31:00 PM
a 15 foot head is not that much to overcome for most economical pumps.  trash pumps are good , here's an example from Graingers

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Trash-Pump-3P654?Pid=search

has a capability of 500 + gallons per minute at around 15 feet of head. and being a trash pump, can move some solids if the water gets stirred up with some sticks or other debris.

here's another less expensive model, but still provides almost 230 gpm.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAYTON-Engine-Driven-Centrifugal-Pump-1ZTA7?Pid=search

figure out your gallons of water needed based on your MSM area dimensions.  then divide by 500 or 230, and see how long it will take to fill your pothole. 

example.......if your pothole is 200 feet long x 100 wide and you want an average depth of 18" then

200 x 100 x 1.5 = 30000 cubic feet x 7.5 (gallons per cubic foot) = 230400 gallons divided by 500 gallon per minute pump = 460 minutes divided by 60 minutes = 7.68 hours to fill your area to 18".

not bad! if you use the lesser pump it still would not likely take more than 10 hours to fill it. still not bad!

keep me informed!  :)

By HuntinWeather - 2/11/2011 8:54:28 AM
Howdy-

very interesting project.  I am looking at something similar but my soil won't hold water.  At any rate, it may have been said already but I bet the reason the county soil survey says it floods is because it is next to that creek.  Good luck!

By Swamper - 2/11/2011 8:42:22 PM
HuntinWeather 2/11/2011
Howdy-

very interesting project.  I am looking at something similar but my soil won't hold water.  At any rate, it may have been said already but I bet the reason the county soil survey says it floods is because it is next to that creek.  Good luck!

 

too bad your soil isn't hydric.   pretty much puts the keybosch to a pothole complex.  put a "for sale" sign on it and go buy some good stuff..........:)

By dsliland12 - 3/29/2011 9:02:34 PM
Well Swamper I have been preparing for my return to Texas and getting excited to start developing my MSM compound but now we may have a problem. Earlier this year a oil/gas company did some drill tests and now they are going to start more permanent work. Usually this would be great but we dont have the mineral rights and we still arent sure where they are going to drill. Info has been slow moving to my family and then onward to me, but from what I understand it is by the creek in the area where I had been planning. I am hoping for the best but now it doesnt sound good. The field by the creek is around 17 acres but I felt like the planned section would be best and I don't know the machinery or the effects it may have on ducks if I try another part. I will try and keep you informed from what I hear. I will be heading back early May and they are supposed to be running by then.
By Swamper - 4/3/2011 8:18:39 PM
how can they access your property without having a lease?   how can they extract gas or oil off your property without a lease?  something seems very wrong......

i hope it works out for you.

i went to the HAVEN today and tooks some pixs so you can see what the impoundment looks like fully flooded.  in june i will begin the slow draw down and then let the natural vegetation growth begin.  i will keep you posted.  please do the same on your piece.

take care,

swamper



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By Swamper - 4/3/2011 8:28:50 PM
ps..........if you have any questions about gas leases, i might be able to help.  i have one with a gas company on my SWAMP property.

just putting that out there.

swamper
By Greenhead25 - 4/4/2011 3:49:16 PM
Swamper I want to be you when I grow up!!!
By Swamper - 4/4/2011 4:48:19 PM
hey, howdy greenhead.  went down to the SWAMP today and took some pixs.  lots' of birds,  woodies, teal, mallards and of course, plenty of honkers....



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By Swamper - 4/4/2011 4:50:38 PM
Greenhead25 (4/4/2011)
Swamper I want to be you when I grow up!!!


and............as handsome..:)
By dsliland12 - 4/4/2011 8:16:57 PM
Great pictures swamper. I always love to see them. As for the land leasing I have no idea whats going on, but I'm sure it is legal. My family has been in real estate for a while and I would hope they would know what is going on. They have given us money for the part of land being used and we recieve a small % of what they extract. They are also putting in roads that are constructed very well and are working with us on where we would prefer them to go through. I wish I could tell you more now but it will be a little while. I think everything will be ok I just may have to move the site over a little. Thanks for the help again and post more pics when you get them
By Swamper - 4/5/2011 10:44:10 AM
ok dis, i'm feeling better.  from what you just stated, it sounds like you do have a lease.  great.

and i will keep the pixs coming on the MSM. it's like having a baby and the suspense is killing me.  :)

really interested in how that vegetation growth works out!!

good luck with your project also!!!!! 
By Weasel - 5/16/2013 11:11:04 PM
Awesome information, just what I was looking for.

-Brian